Let’s Talk Debt: Strategic or Dangerous?

Thought I would start with a listener question today. And this listener question comes from a struggling owner. And this is a listener question that honestly, I hear all the time in my practice.But this is what they wrote said, Ralph, I've been told you need debt to grow, but I'm already stressed about making payments. How do I know if debt is helping my business or putting me at risk? Should I take out a loan for equipment if I'm not sure about sales?I feel like debt could speed me up but. Or sink me. How do I tell the difference? What a great question. Let's be honest for a minute. And I've seen this in my 30 years of practice.That is the one of the scariest decisions that you'll ever face as a business owner. Because I've been there. You're staring at that loan application or maybe you get one of those shiny credit card offers.Man, I seem to get them just about ten times a week. And then you start to wonder, is this going to be the thing that helps me finally grow?Or on the other hand, is this the mistake that's going to bury me? And listen, I get it because I've been in that same situation.Even after 30 years in business and coaching people and coaching all kinds of big and small and medium sized business, I felt that knot in my own stomach, that fear, that one wrong move that could sink everything I've worked for. So here's the truth, and this is the big analogy I want you to really picture in your mind today.Debt can either be a ladder helping you climb higher, or it can be a shovel digging you deeper into a hole that you can't get out of. And that's really the analogy. A ladder that's helping you grow or a shovel. And I've seen that shovel so many times when people just bury themselves.And the hard part is this, when you're stressed, you're a business owner, you're probably stressed all the time. When cash is tight, sometimes it's not always clear which one you're holding when you got that shovel or you got that ladder.And I've seen both sides. Let me tell you a couple stories.I had one client, he was a contractor, this contractor, he was wise financially and he used a small line of credit to buy some materials up front. He saw this job that he needed to do and he said, ralph, I've got to use my line of credit because I'm going to make some profit with this job.And that simple move, just using that little bit of line of credit, let him take on more jobs. He was able to finish the work faster. And guess what? He was able to grow his profit and he paid the debt off quickly. He had a plan ahead of time.So in his case, he had the ladder. And that ladder helped him climb. But on the other side, I've seen it happen where other problems happen.I had a business owner who maxed out credit cards. Listen, this was a crazy story. This client wanted to build this big marketing campaign. They didn't have the cash to do it.They didn't really have a good plan ahead, no clear return in mind, and they just wanted to grow their business. So they used their credit card. And what happened is it brought on sleepless nights, it brought on stress.And when they stopped paying the credit card because they didn't have the money coming in to do it, it was relentless collection calls. And unfortunately, in that case, that shovel dug her deeper until she almost lost her business. Yes, she ended up in bankruptcy.We were able to help her get out of that. But man, she just had that shovel. And that credit card debt just kept burying her and burying her. So let me ask you this. Which way is debt for you?And I know this is a hard question. Has it been a ladder or has it been a shovel? Well, that's exactly what we're going to talk about today.And before I get started too far, don't forget to download today's action sheet. You can get that@gritandgrowthbusiness.com action. Because today I'm going to give you a simple framework.I'm going to give you three questions that you can ask yourself before you even borrow a dollar. And by the end of the conversation, you you'll know whether debt is for your business, is working for you or slowly working against you.Yeah, we're going to talk about whether it's a ladder or it's a shovel. Because here's the thing. Debt itself isn't the enemy. It's just not. But using it without clarity, that's what enslaves us.So let's dig into that on today's show.

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Hello, I'm Ralph. Welcome to the show. This is the show where we tackle real challenges that small business owners face just like you.And today we're going to talk about debt. Debt can be called all kinds of things.And like I talked about earlier, is it your ladder to growth or is it a shovel digging you your business in deeper and deeper. But today, I'm going to cut through the noise and I'm going to give you a simple framework to decide with confidence. And here's my promise to you.By the end of the show, you'll know if debt is working for you or against you. So let's dive in. And as I mentioned earlier, I'm an accountant. I'm going to consultant. I'm a business coach, and I've been doing this for 30 years.And truth is, I've seen both sides of this. I've seen businesses thriving by using a little debt. We call that smart leverage.And then I've seen other businesses completely collapse under crushing payments. And as a coach, I've walked owners through debt restructuring. I've worked through payment plans and even smart borrowing to fuel growth.Listen, I'm not without this myself. I've managed debt in my own companies, and I've learned firsthand when it empowers and when it enslaves.Because, yes, I've gotten myself into debt problems. So today I'm going to talk about how to keep yourself out of those. And today I want to start with a quote from Dave Ramsey.Now, I don't often quote Dave Ramsey because him and I don't always agree on things. And he said this, and I wanted to unfurl this a little bit. He said, debt is a thief of your future.Honestly, I think that is sort of an extreme position to take. But that's Dave's position. Dave thinks that all debt is bad. I just don't believe that. I'd rather lean on the side of what Robert Kiyosaki has to say.Robert said, this debt can be other people's money working for you. See, that's the difference. Dave takes a real strong approach. Don't go into debt ever.Whereas Robert saying, wait a minute, debt can be other people's money working for you. But of course, that leaves us with the decision. How do I know how to make the decision to borrow?So let me tell you how I believe the best way to make that decision and it comes down to connecting a few things. The first thing you've got to connect is what we call ROI or return on investment. It's all about return on investments.Here's the thing I'm going to tell you, mindset, don't borrow for those. Nice to have things. Yeah, they're great to have. That's great. Sounds good. I'd like to have those things.But borrow only when debt directly creates revenue. What am I saying there? If you're going to go buy a truck, for example, my contractor did this.You go buy a truck because it'll allow you to take more jobs. That's being strategic. You're understanding. If I get a truck, it's got a good bed on it. I can put equipment in there, I can put material in there.It's going to make me money. I got one client that does snow plowing. Well, he bought a truck, he bought a snowplow for the front of it. That is revenue generating debt.But think about this one. And I've seen a lot of small business people get themselves in trouble. I did the same thing. New office furniture. Oh, it sure would look nice.When my customers come in, man, I want them to see this beautiful showroom. I want to see this beautiful office desk. But that's a trap because does it really increase your bottom line? Does it help you make money?Now I think honest people could argue that, but I don't think that desk is going to generate income like a truck is going to generate income. So that's the first thing. Understand the return on investments. Does this debt bring a return on the investment?Second thing you've got to understand, and a lot of small business people miss this part and that's interests. You got to understand the interest cost of this. As my client learned the hard way, credit card debt usually has super high interest rates.We're talking about 25, 30, 30% interest. Now I'm going to tell you, be honest with you. It rarely makes sense in business to use credit card debt.Yes, I'm going to agree with Dave Ramsey in that case. For a business to use credit card, it rarely makes sense. Now that being said, there are situations where it might make sense.If you need a bridge loan, if you need a short term loan to buy some material with the idea that you're going to pay it off right away, you're never going to incur debt, that's fine. But if the return isn't significantly higher than the cost of borrowing, the that debt will eat you alive. That's what my client learned.She was just taking spaghetti and throwing it at the wall. She was trying to build this marketing campaign. She was putting that marketing on her credit card just month after month after month.She didn't have a clear plan and there was no return on that. She didn't understand the impact of that interest rate. And after a while it completely buried her. It ate her alive.So understand that the cost of borrowing needs to be factored into the return. And if you're not making at least what the cost of borrowing is doing, don't borrow for that. Let's move on to number three. And that's cash flow.This one is crucial. Ask yourself this very difficult question. Can I cover payments even in a slow month? I was consulting with a client last week.It's one of my coaching clients. He just recently started in business. He said, ralph, I really need to go buy an excavator. I need to go buy a trailer.I need to go buy a big truck to haul stuff around. I said, okay, that's great. I think that's a good thing to do because he's been renting the equipment and it's going to be better for him to buy it.But his concern, and this was kind of interesting because most of the time the clients are like, hey, Ralph, should I do this? How should I do this? And I was actually on the other side. I was saying, hey, go do this. And he was very hesitant. Cause he said, ralph, wait a second.If I have a slow month, am I going to be able to make those payments? Exactly. He was already where I wanted him to be. He was asking that question. You've got to ask that same question.Can I cover these payments even in a slow month? If you can't, let me just tell you right now, the risk is too high. You're going to get yourself in trouble.So as you're adding debt, if you're buying that truck, a lot of small business contractors will go buy a truck, they'll go buy equipment. Ask yourself this very difficult question. If you didn't have any revenue dollars coming in this month, can you meet those payments? Now?The way I resolved that with my client, I said, listen, you're going to put some money down. So if worst case scenario, your business doesn't do well, you, you could sell that equipment and at least recapture what's left on the loan.So that's the key. Cash flow is king. I've done many shows about that. So just always be thinking about the cash flow. Next key, keep it Measured.One of the things I see on the show all the time is what gets measured gets done. Well, why do I say that? Because you got to understand what you're getting into. So many small business clients. I see this a lot.I'll take a little rant here for a second. I've seen so many small business clients get themselves in trouble with cash flow.Next thing you know, they go and do these accounts receivable loans. They don't even understand how much they're paying for it. I got a client right now. Listen to this.They borrowed $100,000 as an accounts receivable loan. But here's the thing. This company, the loan company got their money up front. So my client only got 60,000. So they paid $40,000 to borrow this money.I said to my client, wait a minute, that's a lot of money. They said, yeah, Ralph, we don't have any other choice. Well, you're burying yourself. You just added $40,000 worth of interest, cost, and debt.You don't even understand. How are you going to recover that? How do you measure that? You got to understand that. So explore efficiency in your business.Explore your pricings and explore revenue improvements before you're borrowing. Like with that particular client. I said to him, let's sit down and go over your numbers because maybe you don't need to borrow that much.Unfortunately, in that case, they're spiraling out of control. They just are. When. Listen, here's the truth. When I see people doing those accounts receivable loans.And listen, I get the emails all the time from loan companies. Hey, we can send you a hundred thousand dollars today, or we can send you $50,000 today. Yeah, that sounds good.And maybe it's Thursday and you're wondering, am I going to meet payroll on Friday? And you're starting to freak out. You're having that. You know, you're feeling that emotion, which I'm going to get to next. Don't do it, man.You're just burying yourself. That's when you truly have a shovel. When you're getting those kind of loans, you have a shovel. Which leads me to the final thing today.Watch your emotions. Listen, we're emotional people. That's who we are as people. You can say, well, I'm a businessman or I'm a businesswoman. Yeah, but guess what?You have emotions. You're a human being. So don't let the fear of debt stop you from wise growth.So many people have said to me, ralph, I'm just afraid to take on debt Because I'm scared. I'm afraid I'm going to end up in bankruptcy. I'm not going to be able to make the payments.But understand if you have a plan, if you've considered that return on investment, you understand how this is going to work. You understand the costs. Don't let that fear lead you to paralysis. But at the same time, here's the other side of this. Don't let that excitement.Like when I got that email the other day, it says, hey, we can give you $250,000 today. Just sign here, you can grow your business. And I thought, wow, that's a great idea.I could do this, I could do that, I could buy into all this marketing campaign, I could really grow my business. But I said, wait a minute, am I gambling my future? And so many small business people gamble their future because they buy into that excitement.Or maybe it's that fear of not having enough cash. So those are things, I want to review those one more time. Let's go through that list so that we understand the components to this.So the first part of that is the ROI connection. It's all about the return on your investment. Don't borrow for the nice to haves. Borrow when it creates revenue.Second thing, understand the interest cost. The you got to understand the cost. Stay away from credit card debt and really understand the cost of borrowing. Don't let it eat you alive.Always check the cash flow. Can I make these payments? If the money is tight, keep it measured. Look at your revenue side of the transaction first.And as always, watch your emotions. Which leads me to this promised three step test.I told you at the beginning, I'm going to give you a simple test that you can use whenever you decide. Am I going to borrow money? So you ready for this again? I'll have this in the action plan for today's Show. That's@gritngrowthbusiness.com Action.But here's my three question test. Question number one, will this debt directly make me more money? It's very simple to answer, right?If I go and borrow this money, will it make me more money? Let's take an example. Let's use my contractor who's going to buy an excavator. He does ditches, he digs ditches.He digs up people's front yards to fix piping. That's a simple way to explain it. Well right now when he needs an excavator, he's got to go rent one. He's got to go to the store, which Takes time.He's got to go pick up the excavator, sign the paperwork, bring it back to the job, do the job, clean up the excavator, take it back. He's wasting time with that. So can this make him more money? Well, absolutely, because now he doesn't have to pay to go rent that machine.And we had had a conversation. I said, how much does it cost you to rent this versus how much would it cost you to buy it? I'll give you a simple example.He could buy this machine for about $1,000 a month. Well, every time he rents it, it cost him about $300.Well, if he rents that machine three times in a month, it would have been better for him to just go and buy it. So he's making a decision, Ralph. I think I'm going to go buy it. Because he sees this is going to make him money.It's going to be a positive return on his investment. He understands the costs, he understands the interest cost. He's not emotional about it. He's thought it through.He understands this equipment is impactful to him. Business decision. Which leads me to question number two. So the first one, will this debt directly make me more money?Second question, can I cover the payments even in a slow month? And that's the conversation him and I had. I said, okay, I'm going to use. I'm going to say his name is Paul. I don't like to use real names.Let's say his name is Paul. I said, paul, if bad things happen, you didn't do any digging this month, would you be able to cover those payments?Well, sure, Ralph, it's not a big deal. My business is generating enough to where I can pay that thousand dollars payment a month.But you ask yourself that question because so many small business clients don't think about that. And it's usually not just one payment.It's when you add the truck loan and then you add the excavator loan, and then you go get a trailer loan and maybe you get a line of credit for materials. Well, if you're not thinking about it, those things are accumulating.And then all of a sudden you get to the end of the month, and this is another thing I'll talk about a little bit later in the show is having that list of debts. I'll call it a debt audit. We'll talk about that in a few minutes.But understanding what your debts are so that you know it doesn't sneak up on you and grab you at the end, you Understand what you're getting into. So that's the second question. Can I cover the payments even in a slow month?And here's my third question, and this one gets into the psychology of this. Am I borrowing out of strategy or out of fear? See, the truth is, a small business, people, a lot of times we're motivated by fear.We want to borrow because we want to have that in March. We don't want to have our checking account or our operating account get real low. We're worried about, am I going to meet payroll on Friday?Hey, I've got payments coming up. I got payroll to handle. I got all these little nuanced things for the business. So are you borrowing out of fear? I'm going to go get this link.Hey, when I got that email, here's a line of credit for you, Ralph. Just sign here. A little bit of. That's fear, right? It's emotional. Is it strategy? So ask yourself that third question.Am I borrowing out of strategy or out of fear? Let's go over those questions one more time. Here's all three questions, and again, they'll be in our action plan for today.So question number one, will the debt directly make me more money? Number two, can I cover the payments even in a slow month? And. And number three, am I borrowing out of strategy or out of fear? And here's the answer.If you can answer yes, yes, strategy, yes, then it's probably a ladder. It's not a shovel. If you can say, yes, I'm doing this for the right reasons, I understand I can make the payments. I understand it's a strategy thing.I understand it's going to be a revenue return. That's when it's a ladder. If you answer no to any of those questions, or if these things are questions in your mind, guess what?You might have a shovel in your hand. Shovels dig deep ditches.And unfortunately, with debt, what usually happens is you keep digging deeper and deeper because you're getting in farther and farther. All right, so here's my action steps for you to take right away this week to really make these better decisions.First thing, and I alluded to this a couple times, first thing you want to do, audit all of your current debts. What am I talking about here? I'm an accountant. I understand the word audit. But you might be like Ralph, what's an audit? Real simple.I want you to write down every single debt you have. List the debt, list the amount, how much you owe, the interest rate, and the purpose of it.The purpose is important because as you start to unwind this, as you start to think about your mindset, I want you to understand the amount, the interest rate and the purpose. Because then you might have some recollection moments. You may be like, oh, yeah, I got that. That was for office furniture. Hmm.Ralph said that wasn't necessarily a revenue producing thing. But that's the key. Is it a revenue producing thing? What was the purpose? So start there and audit that.Then I want you to run a simple ROI test before you take on any new debt. You've got that list. Now, you understand what your payments are. You're thinking, okay, I can afford these payments, I'm good.I've got enough money coming in to do this. But then you've got that decision. Am I going to go do something else?Run that return on investment test before taking on any new debt, ask yourself, is it going to generate revenue? Is it going to build the business? Is it going to grow? Or, hey, do I have a shovel in my hand? Is it a ladder or a shovel?And the third thing I'm going to encourage you to do is create a repayment safety net. What am I talking about here? Plan to cover payments even in slow months.One of the things I recommend for all my small business clients is have three months worth of debt service payments in an account. Real simple idea. Go create a savings account. Go create a money market account, something that earns interest.And you're not going to do this the first month in business.So just to be clear, but as your business grows, as you're starting to decide on where my cash is going to go, create this emergency fund for your business. My view of the emergency fund is three months worth of payments.So if you've got truck loans, if you've got equipment loans, if you've got any kind of those things, I want you to have three months. And I know it's something to reach for. You might not have it at first, but that could be an aspiring goal.But have enough money in that business emergency fund, that repayment safety net to cover those payments. So that if you have a snow. In fact, I was working with a client yesterday. He's a landscaper, landscaping business.In November, December, January, there's not much going on now. He might get some snow, and that's fantastic. But he's already thought this through. We had this discussion yesterday.He said, ralph, I've already got this planned.I've got these mower loans, I've got this truck loan, I've got this trailer, and here's how much money that I've got parked on over here in my repayment safety net account so that even if no money comes in the door all winter long, I can meet my payroll and I can make my payments. See, that's what it comes down to, being able to cover those payments even in slow months. Well, let me get into some reflection questions.I really want to ask you some key questions now because we've covered a lot today and I want you to just introspect and really think through and meditate on what I'm getting ready to ask you. Let me ask you this question as you're listening to this. Where in your business has debt been a ladder? Think about that for a second.Where have I used debt to really grow your business? Was it buying for a truck? Was it buying materials? Was it buying equipment?I can tell you right now, it's been a ladder in my business when I bought new computers. New computers are important to my business. We work in technology. When somebody comes in to meet with me, guess what? I need to use a computer.It's a tool. For me, that's a ladder. It's been a shovel too, though, I have to be honest. I needed to have brand new furniture.I built this new office here on the farm and I said, oh, I want it. I want it to look fantastic so that if anybody comes over and says, oh, that looks fantastic. In my case, that was a shovel.Now, I had enough money to pay for it, but looking back at it now, I can say, yeah, you know what? There wasn't a strong return on investment.Now I can make an argument that as a professional, I want people to come in and see that I'm not working off of milk crates or some kind of, you know, an old board sitting across two saws. I'll be honest with you. When I first started my business, I and Abby and I were talking about this and preparing for the show today.She said, you know, you should share some of the things that happened when you first started. Well, let me tell you a little story. So when I first started my business, I had left my dad's accounting practice.I'd worked with him for a few years. And we decided, family, this was not working out. So I decided to go off on my own.Well, my first office was on the second floor of a used car dealership. I mean, this was one of those buy here, pay here used car dealerships. And let me just tell you, this place was rough.So on the first floor, imagine this. It's a mechanic shop. There's cars for sale. There's people coming and going all the time.There's this little narrow stairway, this real rickety stairway up to the second floor. And once you got to the second floor, it was an old. It was a beautiful old building, but it was old, it was dilapidated.So the first thing I had to do is I had to have somebody come in and do some painting. Well, anyway, we get all settled in. I didn't buy new furniture. I went to a scratch and dent sale. I bought stuff that was used.We could call it seasoned. A lot of people come in there. Like, that is a beautiful desk. I'm like, Yeah, I paid 20 bucks for it, but it was mine. I had it.I. I didn't have that big debt. Well, here's the thing. I think I've mentioned this on the show before. One of the biggest battles I had is this place had a problem with mice.Mice were everywhere. In fact, it got to the point where we would be in the middle of a conversation, we hear that mice trapped and go, snap, go.See, there's another mouse caught. But again, that's where I started. When I look back at it, that was a ladder. I bought cheap desks. I bought stuff that was durable.I bought stuff that would make me money. And guess what? I don't have to do that anymore. But when I first started, that's where I was now.I could have easily gone and grabbed a shovel at that point. I could have went and got that credit card. I could have went, bought all new furniture, bought a brand new building, leased a beautiful space.I don't know that I'd be sitting where I'm at right now if I had done that. So that's the first question. Ask yourself, where in your business has debt been a ladder and where has it been a shovel? And use that to your benefit.Listen, I'm not judging you. I'm not telling you to dwell on the past. But learn from that. Second question, and this is one of those dream those aspiration things.Just think about this for a second. Just close your eyes for a second.If you were debt free, I mean truly debt free, you had no loans at all, you had no debts at all, how would you feel? I mean, seriously, how would you feel about that? What would that feel like?When you came into your business every day and you're like, ralph, I don't have any debts. I don't have any, any overhead. I don't worry about that. Would you operate differently? Would your business be something that is not fearful?Would There be no anxiety. Would you be able to operate smoother? So ask yourself that question.I know it's a little bit of a pie in the sky thing, but you know, I'm a believer that when I was working with a client yesterday, we were doing some coaching and I said, let's talk about a one year, a five year and a ten year plan. One of the things I asked him, I said, what does your business look like in five years? He goes, well, I don't know. Is there a right answer?I said, no, there's no right answer. But how does it feel? What does an average day feel like? Well, ask yourself that same question.If you were debt free, you didn't have that credit card debt, you didn't have those car loans, those truck loans, that equipment loan, just completely debt free, how would you feel? Would you operate differently? See, because you can get to that. And my final reflection question for today.Are you borrowing for growth or borrowing for comfort? Yeah, that one stings a little bit, doesn't it? Because I can think back and listen, I've been doing this for 30 years.I've been in my own accounting practice. I have a farm. I raise Black Angus cows. I've had to ask myself this question as well. Am I borrowing for growth or barring for comfort?You know, furniture, a lot of times it's comfort. A brand new truck, probably comfort, because the old truck will probably be sufficient.I'm not telling you not to go buy a new truck, but is it for growth or is it for comfort? All right, friend, well, let's bring this home. I want to really close this out today.Debt isn't automatically good, but it's also not automatically bad. I'm not taking the Dave Ramsey approach that all debt is bad. It's about how you use it. I hope you heard that and it's why you use it.See, it's all about that mindset.And as I've said a couple times, if it's tied directly to growth, if it's a clear return on investment, if you can manage the payments, if you have steady cash flow, listen, it can be a ladder that helps you climb. And listen, I've seen debt help people grow their businesses and take off for the stars.But on the other side of that, if it's driven by emotion, if it's driven by fear or it's driven by pressure to keep up, let me tell you right now, my friend, you're holding a shovel. And that shovel just digs deeper and deeper and deeper. So here's what I want you to do this week again. Audit every debt you have listed out.Run a simple return on investment test before you borrow another dollar and ask yourself, will this make more than it costs? That's really what it comes down to. Will this make more than it cost? And create a cash flow safety net so even in a slow month you can breathe easy.Then take a moment and reflect. Where has debt been your ladder to help you grow? And where has it been your shovel holding you back?Because when you see it clearly, this is the truth about all business. When you can see things clear, when you can step back and look at things clearly, guess what? That's when you'll have control.And if you're not sure, if you're staring at that loan application like I was so many times right now, you don't have to figure this all out alone. Let's walk through it together. One of the things I offer is coaching services. We can sit down, we can work together.I'm going to give you a website here in a minute, but I can work with you for strategic. I can talk to you about how to do things from a strategic plan based on your business. And all starts with a free discovery call.I don't charge you anything. It's a 15 minute discovery call. You and I get to know each other. I'll understand your business. You'll understand what I can do for you.If you're interested in doing it, go to gritandgrowthbusiness.com coaching it's really that simple. Let's go together to gritandgrowthbusiness.comcoaching and let's build a plan together.Let's see if this would work together because remember, strategic debt fuels growth but dangerous debt enslaves. You. Choose the ladder, not the shovel. Well, thanks for joining me this week. Remember, debt can lift you higher or it can pull you under.It's really your choice this week. Ask yourself, is debt your ladder or is it your shovel?And see you next week with more clarity, more courage and practical steps to grow your business. Oh, before I forget, I don't want to forget about this one. Abby almost forgot to remind me of this. Don't forget every Tuesday night we go live.Yes, I'm going live with grit and growth. Live. Because I want to have the opportunity to answer your questions. Live. You can join our community.You can join us live every Tuesday night, 8pm Eastern time by going to gritandgrowthbusiness.com/live. You just go to that website, my beautiful face will pop up and you can take part in the conversation. You can enjoy the show.I'm going to do one on one coaching. You can put your questions right into the chat. Again, that's at gritandgrowthbusiness.com/live gritandgrowthbusiness.com/live. God bless you.And you have a great day today.